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Updated 3.11.2013 / Rosh Chodesh Kislev 5773

 

 

 

 

A Jewish response to a Christian who tries to convert him. 'You want me to become Christian?, I have some questions for you'

 

 

The items at this page are meant for people  who love the G’d of Israel and who do not understand why most of the Jews doesn’t agree with the contents of the Christian New Testament and with certain Christian dogma’s. The page is not intended to persuade or to change your beliefs but only to create un understanding why most of the Jewish people have difficulty with the contents of New Testament. In this way a real friendship and connection between Christians and Jews can be developed based on mutual respect. We do not claim that Christians cannot live in a sincere relitionship with God.

 

 

 

A)  If the faith in the Messiah is so essential for salvation or to live in 'perfect relation with God' why it is this 'law' not one of the 613 instructions (laws) of the Thora or why is it not mentioned as a future rule?

 

 

B)  In the Torah (Deut 24:16) is written "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor shall the children be put to death for the fathers; every man shall be put to death for his own sin". Also Ezekiel 18:20 tells the same. So according to Torah and Tanach God says that no man shall die for the sins of somebody else. So why try so many Christians to convince us as that we Jewish people should believe that Jesus died for our sins?

 

C)  According to what the prophets Jeremiah an Ezekiel foretold (Jer. 31:33-36 and 32:37-41) (Ezek.36:26-28) the era of the New Covenant can be recognized on has two essential characteristics:

 

1)       ALL the Jewish people will observe the Torah and serve the God of Israel

2)       The people of Israel will FOREVER live in the land of Israel and NEVER will be uprooted out of it again.

 

If we now would live in the era of the New Covenant (according to the New Testament verses Luk. 22:20 and Hebr. 10:16) some 2000 years, why we could not see and can not see the foretold characteristics of this era up till now ? 

 

(In the years 70 CE and 135 CE the Jewish people has been uprooted from the land and till today many, many Jews live outside Israel, not to mention most of the lost 10 tribes who after the first expulsion never returned.)

 

Ezek 36:26-28 “26  A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. 27  And I will put My spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes (Torah), and ye shall keep Mine ordinances, and do them. 28  And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be My people, and I will be your God.”, Jer.31:33-36 “33  But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith HaShem, I will put My law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people; 34  and they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying: ‘Know HaShem’; for they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith HaShem; for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more. 35  Thus saith HaShem, Who giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, who stirreth up the sea, that the waves thereof roar, HaShem of hosts is His name: 36  If these ordinances depart from before Me, saith HaShem, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me for ever.”, Jeremiah 32:37-41 “37  Behold, I will gather them out of all the countries, whither I have driven them in Mine anger, and in My fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them back unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely; 38  and they shall be My people, and I will be their God; 39  and I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me for ever; for the good of them, and of their children after them; 40  and I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put My fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from Me. 41  Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land in truth with My whole heart and with My whole soul.”

 

 

 

D) Why is the description of the New Covenant in the New Testament different than its description in the Tanach (the Old Testament)? Luke 22:20 writes ‘Likewise also He took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new testament in My blood, which is shed for you.’ Matt. 26:28 writes ‘for this is My blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins According to these verses the New Covenant would meant the the sins of the believer now are forgiven as a result of de offering of the Messiah, the spilling of his blood. The Tanach (Old Testament) however gives a total different description as you can read in Jer. 31:33-36 and the other verses mentioned here above.

 

 

E) In the Old Testament, the Tanach is written that someone comes in the presence of God through obedience to the Torah and that God gives healing and forgiveness of sins through obedience to what He instructed in the Torah. Leviticus 26:3-12 3 If ye walk in My statutes, and keep My commandments, and do them; 4  then I will give your rains in their season, and the land shall yield her produce, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit. 5  And your threshing shall reach unto the vintage, and the vintage shall reach unto the sowing time; and ye shall eat your bread until ye have enough, and dwell in your land safely. 6  And I will give peace in the land, and ye shall lie down, and none shall make you afraid; and I will cause evil beasts to cease out of the land, neither shall the sword go through your land. …... 11  And I will set My tabernacle among you, and My soul shall not abhor you. 12  And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be My people.” Lev. 18:5 “Ye shall therefore keep My statutes, and Mine ordinances, which if a man do, he shall live by them: I am the LORD”. Psalm 19:7 “The law of the LORD is perfect, restoring the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple” Deut.6:2 ”that thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all His statutes and His commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son’s son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.” Read further: De 30:20, De 32:47, Pr 3:2, Pr 3:18 and Eze 20:11.

 

Further in these verses you can read that these instructions for ever will be valid. Also king David writes it clear in Psalm 119:152 “Of old have I known from Thy testimonies that Thou hast founded them for ever”, 119:160: “The beginning of Thy word is truth; and all Thy righteous ordinance endured for ever”. Ps 111:7b-9a: “all His precepts are sure. They are established for ever and ever, they are done in truth and uprightness. He hath sent redemption unto His people; He hath commanded His covenant for ever”

 

Also now a human comes into Gods ‘presence’ through obedience, by keeping His commandments (the Torah) Mica 6:8 “It hath been told thee, O man, what is good, and what the LORD doth require of thee: only to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God.” If you say that you (only) through the faith in Jesus as Messiah you can come in Gods presence is not the truth.  The words written in Galatians 2:16 “knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified” is a contradiction of the Tanach (the Old Testament). All the prophets told that restoration of Israel will come  through obedience to the Torah instruction. Ezek 37:24b “they shall also walk in Mine ordinances, and observe My statutes, and do them”

 

The question: How is it possible that  a lot of people just believe that the words of God would have been changed. Also for the non-Jews the Torah in the future will be very important as it is written in Isaiah 2:2-3 (and Micah 4) “And it shall come to pass in the end of days, that the mountain of the LORD’S house shall be established as the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many peoples shall go and say: ‘Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths.’ For out of Zion shall go forth the law (Torah), and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.”

 

 

F) Nowhere in the Tanach (Old Testament) has been prophesised that in the future salvation would be accomplished by the faith in the Messiah. This is very strange if it would become such an essential belief.

 

 

G Why says God to Cain that he has to ‘rule’ over the sins if that without faith in Jesus wouldn’t be possible?  Gen 4:7 “If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? And if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him

 

 

H According to Christian Theology it is not possible for a human to observe the instructions of the Torah. It would be to difficult for a human to observe (and for that reason it is not necessary at this moment in the framework of the ‘New Covenant’.

Why than God says in the Torah that it is not difficult for a human to keep the instructions of the Torah. Deut. 30:11-18 ‘ For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not too hard for thee, neither is it far off.  It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say: ‘Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it?’ Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say: ‘Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it?’ But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.   See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil, in that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His ordinances; then thou shalt live and multiply, and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest in to possess it.’

 

 

I If Jesus would be an Godly authority who should be obeyed why even the Christians do not obey him as he says in Matt 5:17-23 "1Think not that I am come to undo the law or the prophets; I am not come to undo, but to fulfil.18 For verily I say unto you, Until heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or one tittle shall pass from the law until all is fulfilled.19 Whosoever therefore shall undo one of these least commandments and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of the heavens; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens."  So if Christians would obey him, the should keep all Thora instructions as keeping Shabbat,keeping kosher etc etc. Further in Matt 23:1-3a he says that his followers even should observe all rulings of the rabbis. "Then Jesus spoke to the multitude and to his disciples, saying, The scribes and the Pharisees have sat down in Moses’ seat; therefore, whatever they bid you to observe, observe it and do it". So if he would be God or Messiah why his followers don't listen to him and observe what he instituted.

 

 

J In Psalms 19:7 is written "The law of the LORD is perfect, restoring the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple." and in Deuteronomy 29:28 is written "The secret things belong unto the LORD our God; but the things that are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law". It says that the Torah is perfect and for ever valid. How is it possible that the writer of the Hebrews letter (8:13) made the conclusion that the Torah is old and close to vanishing? And how comes that that Paul calls the Torah "ministry of death, written and engraved on stones" (2 Cor. 3:7)? By the way, the reality of today proves that it never has been vanished. Even more, as foretold in Deut. 30, Jer. 31, Ezech 36 and Mal. 4, the Torah will be observed again by all the Jewish nation.

 

 

K) According to the Tenach (Old Testament) the Torah is for ever. This is even what  Jesus states himself (Matt 5:17-23 and Matt 23:1-3a). Christians state that Jesus kept the Torah perfect. How is it possible that there are things written in the so-called New Testament which shows that he broke the law? John 8:11 where supposedly the scribes and pharisees brought a woman caught in the act of adultery before Jesus to see what he's 'judgment' would be. So Jesus responds by saying that the person without sin should throw the first stone..... This is a breach of the law. Another thing is the rebuke of his parents while the Torah states that someone should honor his parents (Luke 2:48,49). Further regarding divorce he even changed the law (Matt. 19:7-9) misquoting the Torah, assuming that it were rules of Moses while it were instructions from God (Deut. 24:1, Deut. 12:28).

 

 

L) The Tenach clearly writes how a 'sinner will live' Ezek 18:21 and Ezek 33:14,15 (14 Again, when I say unto the wicked: Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right; 15 if the wicked restore the pledge, give back that which he had taken by robbery, walk in the statutes of life, committing no iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.) So what is the added value to believe in Jesus in order 'to live'?

 

 

M) The Torah specifically warns for people who want to distract the Jewish people from observing the Torah instructions. Do you really think that I believe you when you that it is not necessary to observe Torah anymore and that it is better to become a Christian?  Deut 13:1-5 "All this word (the Torah) which I command you, that shall ye observe to do; thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.  If there arise in the midst of you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams--and he give you a sign or a wonder, 3 and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spoke unto you--saying: 'Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them'; 4 you shall not listen unto the words of that prophet, or unto that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God put you to proof, to know whether ye do love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 5 After the LORD your God shall ye walk, and Him shall ye fear, and His commandments shall you keep, and unto His voice shall you listen, and Him shall you serve, and unto Him shall you cleave.

 

 

to be continued......

 

The Jewish concept of the Messiah. This is how the Messiah will look like.

 

The concept of the Messiah has its foundation in our Jewish Bible, the Tanach, which teaches that all of the following criteria must be fulfilled before any person can be acknowledged as the Messiah:

● He will be a worldwide ruler who brings peace amongst people but also amongst animals.(Micah 4:1-4; Hoseah 2:20; Isaiah 2:1-4, 60:18). Israel will live safe.

● He gathers in the exiles of Israel; both from the two tribes and from the ten tribes. The ten tribes will join Judah.
When the Messiah reigns as King of Israel, the Israelites will be ingathered from their exile and will return to Israel, their homeland (Deut. 30:3; Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 30:3, 32:37; Ezekiel 11:17, 36:24).

● Messiah must be from the Tribe of Judah and a Descendant of King David and King Solomon. (Genesis 49:10) (2 Samuel 7:12-14; 1 Chronicles 22:9-10). Genealogy in the Bible is only passed down from father to son (Numbers 1:1-18).

● He will rebuild the Holy Temple which will be located at the Tempel Mount in Jerusalem and it will not been destroyed. (Isaiah 2:2-3, 56:6-7, 60:7, 66:20; Ezekiel 37:26–27; Malachi 3:4; Zech. 14:20-21).

● Under his rule all Jews will embrace Torah observance (Ezekiel 37:24; Deut. 30:8,10; Jeremiah 31:32; Ezekiel 11:19-20, 36:26-27).


● He will destroy Edom, the enemies of Israel
 

● Will fiscally be anointed by a prophet
 

 

 

Feel free to send a mail in case of questions to Shalom Center . org 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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